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Direct Link To This Post Topic: dosage of 200c potency
    Posted: 18 Jan. 05 at 04:50
how many drops of 200c potency of a homeopathic medicine a person can or should take in a day
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan. 05 at 13:43

Hello arora,

Your question cannot be answered by a single number. Posology is a science on its own and the potency selected together with the amount and intervals of repetition depend on the case.

200 c is a pretty high potency and it should be closely evaluated when to be repeated. To grasp the complexity of Your question, I would like to refer to the following, http://www.hpathy.com/philosophy/hahnemann_organon271to280.a sp, §§ 275,276.

From §276 of the Organon by Hahnemann (more on it on the website): "Too large doses of an accurately chosen homoeopathic medicine, and especially when frequently repeated, bring about much trouble as a rule."

My message is, if You are not certain about the dose and repetition, the advice of a competent homeopath (who has to know the case) should be seeked for. Especially with such high potencies, careful use is highly recommended.

My practice is, after prescribing a 200c, to invite the patient after one week for feedback. Usually a repetition is not needed yet. In cases of aggravation, discomfort or any unexpected or obvious changes, an appointment is made ASAP for further evaluation.

Sorry for not being able to give You an alltime valid answer.

sigi

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan. 05 at 17:51

Dear Arora

You said "how many drops of 200c potency of a homeopathic medicine a person can or should take in a day "

Sigi said "From §276 of the Organon by Hahnemann (more on it on the website): "Too large doses of an accurately chosen homoeopathic medicine, and especially when frequently repeated, bring about much trouble as a rule.""

 

If your question is about how many drops of 200c in a dose in one day, then the para 276 does not address your question.

You can take two or three drops of 200c in a dose in one day.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan. 05 at 22:59

Hello Homeo Doctor,

You are right, thank You for Your correction. I was afraid the remedy is to be taken daily and just jumped on that.

Take care, sigi



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 05 at 03:12

thanks homeo doctor

You said "take two or three drops of 200c in a dose in one day"

I can understand by this that 2 or 3 drops make one dose but How many such doses one can take in a day according to homeopathic medicine rules.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 05 at 05:44
Once in day but depending upon the severity of the case you can use three times in a day and in few cases after 15 minutes of interval time. There is no hard and fast rule. This all depends upon your condition and stage of the disease / case.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 05 at 12:39

Hello Homeo Doctor,

remembering "Too large doses of an accurately chosen homoeopathic medicine, and especially when frequently repeated, bring about much trouble as a rule.", can You pl. teach me how, according to the informations available, You do suggest a 200c being prescriped three times a day that easily?

My teachings force me to wait for the effects first. If there is no effect, THEN the question arises if the remedy has been chosen well, if the potency was not suitable or whatsoever. The subject is a pretty high potency, and the case is unknown to us - this is why I'd ask for Your kind opinion.

Thank You very much,

sigi



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 05 at 01:06

dear homeo doctor,

i am taking natrum cabronicum 200c as advised by you 3 times a day for my depression and anxiety-phobia chronic disorder problem.

some releif is felt by me by use of this medicine as advised by you but what should i do to get good relief as my problem is chronic and i am suffering from past 8 years ,should i move to 1M potencey or should i increase more doses of natrum carbonicum 200c potency.

If i have to move to 1M potency then how much should i take or as advised by you what need to be done

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 05 at 16:24

how many drops of 200c potency of a homeopathic medicine a person can or should take in a day

 

Sigi was right, a few drops of the remedy and wait.  This is a high enough potency to get a reaction.  Once you've gotten a reaction, you'll know when to repeat--namely at the start of a relapse.  Once you've begun improving, constant repetitions only serve to aggravate.  There must be a compelling reason to repeat the remedy, or you could make yourself worse, or undo all the good the initial dose had done.

Beyond this, it is hard for us to comment.  We don't know why Nat-carb was chosen and we don't know anything about your case.  I would imagine that if you have anxiety attacks, you would need an acute remedy, such as Aconite, for the acute panic, and another remedy to be taken daily in small doses, to cover the chronic state. 

For instance, you may be a Nat-carb person who has attacks of anxiety.  You would need a daily schedule of nat-c. 6C three times a day, and a 30C or 200C of the acute remedy that matched the sudden attacks that you might have.  Frequently, this remedy is Aconite--what we call "homeopathic Valium". 

I hope you see the difference between the acute crisis and the chronic state.  Sometimes they're the same remedy; such as when Arsenicum--well known for anxiety-- is the chronic and the acute as well.  In this case,  a possible prescription would be Ars. 6C three times a day (preferably in water, shaken before each dose) and Ars. 30C or 200 taken at the time of acute attack; then returning to the 6C three times a day in order to prevent or lessen any subsequent attack.

Feel free to ask any questions.  Speaking of which, I guess my question would be, who decided on Nat-c. 200C taken daily?

Snoopy 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 05 at 20:40

Originally posted by Homeo Doctor

Once in day but depending upon the severity of the case you can use three times in a day and in few cases after 15 minutes of interval time. There is no hard and fast rule. This all depends upon your condition and stage of the disease / case.

Hello sigi,

Please try to follow What I have written

Once in day: means give one dose and wait (first rule)

You can use three times in a day: This mostly happens when a person is in chronic stage and came from allopathic ground or the parson was taking high toxicity or the person is non reactive to medicines and you can't take risk of waiting after single dose reaction because of so many chemicals in the body. This is common method of among homeopaths and not a new thing. I just told the help seeker about this rule and not to said to apply the rule without understanding situation. you are great lover of Ramakrishnan protocol Did you ever ask the same question to him? He does not believe on wait and see rule.... in treating cancer patients.

In few cases after 15 min of interval: This is most common method when you treat patients in emergency room when you don't take risk of wasting time in so many emergency cases. This is very common method who perform duties in emergency wards. Doctors keep an eye on the patient and the patient remains under full observation. Do you have an experience of treating patient in emergency ward? I have...

Sigi you have the habit of denying what you wrote. (Take it in light mood... I am crticizing you) you wrote in rama article "This method is used by Dr. Ramakrishnan in his cancer therapy. For example, he prescribes Aurum metallicum C200 (which he, as a rule, prefers to the C30) in a certain case, and he lets the patient take it four times a day.

It looks to me you copied that article somewhere and did not understand before sending in ezine. I am in jolly mood. Very strange to me, you are not convinced with yourself what you mostly write.

You can forget everything but I read everything with great care and most of the reference are on my finger tips. I do not nead them to save.



Edited by Homeo Doctor
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 05 at 20:51
Originally posted by arora

dear homeo doctor,

i am taking natrum cabronicum 200c as advised by you 3 times a day for my depression and anxiety-phobia chronic disorder problem.

Dear Arora, I do not believe in creating alias. I only use one destination for sending post. Please do not use duplicate names to deceive persons. I did not prescribe you nat carb 200 thrice a day.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 05 at 21:02
Originally posted by Sigi

Hello Homeo Doctor,

remembering "Too large doses of an accurately chosen homoeopathic medicine, and especially when frequently repeated, bring about much trouble as a rule.",

I agree with you but I am also saying right that you can repeat that accurately selected remedy according to the demand of the case and patient consitution. There would be no trouble at all.

 

can You pl. teach me how, according to the informations available, You do suggest a 200c being prescriped three times a day that easily?

Come out from the "book worm" stage where you do what has been written in the books. I am telling you what has been experience by the homeopathic doctors. Read new book written by dr. rama, where he addressed potency and its repetation methods.

My teachings force me to wait for the effects first.

I agree with you and no body is forcing you to deviate from that rule. But when you ask is any other rule beside that single rule then allow me to say yes! That rule is not a single rule to follow

If there is no effect, THEN the question arises if the remedy has been chosen well, if the potency was not suitable or whatsoever. The subject is a pretty high potency, and the case is unknown to us - this is why I'd ask for Your kind opinion.

No, many times it was observed that a very well selected remedy gave no response and doctor was confused to use another remedy or repeat that remedy. If the remedy has not given you proper result then there is strong reason that you did not repeat the remedy according to the severity of the case.

Thank You very much,

Its all right.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 05 at 21:21
Originally posted by Snoopy

how many drops of 200c potency of a homeopathic medicine a person can or should take in a day

Sigi was right, a few drops of the remedy and wait.  This is a high enough potency to get a reaction.  Snoopy 

You are free to agree with sigi but sigi himself disagree with his own written artilce.  Dr. Rama has got 100 curability rate in cancer because he also disagreed with Hahnemann and used 200 c potency four times a day according to the demand of the patient condition. Now its upto you whether you want to follow old traditional saying or wants to understand present time demand.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 05 at 22:52

Hello Homeo Doctor,

may I kindly ask You to read the article You have mentioned once more? Then You might be able to understand the difference of Ramakrishnan's course of treatment and Your suggestion of possible overdosing.

Ramakrishnan: "In the homoeopathic therapy of cancer the first aim is stopping of the tumour growth. For this reason both tumour and organ-specific remedies are given. Here one should be conscious of the fact, that the actual cure of the patient and to attain control over the tumour are two different processes. For the cure to be successful, not only the suitable constitutional remedy is needed, but the patient must have knowledge about his inner self and must attain an inner balance, so that homeopathy can start working successfully."

Here we might get an idea that before the treatment is started a lot of effort is taken not only to find the suitable constitutional remedy (& nosode) has to be chosen - but the whole patient is to be prepared prior to successful treatment. Ramakrishnan knows the case and He knows The remedies He uses. Homeo Doctor, do YOU know THIS case? Do You KNOW that the correct remedy has been chosen? Definitely You have to, otherwise You couldn't give the advice above. I would like to know from You, how You can be so sure to give such advice.

Ramakrishnan: "In every single case, the homoeopath has to try to understand the nature and the life of the patient."

Homeo Doctor, do You understand the nature and the life of the patient, in this case of arora?

Ramakrishnan: "As a rule, several appointments are necessary for this, because it is a quite difficult process for many of the patients to completely open themselves to another person in one session."

Why has the rule not to be obeyed in this case? Is there a reason that can be given?

Ramakrishnan: "This method is used by Dr. Ramakrishnan in his cancer therapy. For example, he prescribes Aurum metallicum C200 (which he, as a rule, prefers to the C30) in a certain case, and he lets the patient take it four times a day. Three globules at a time - in the morning after getting up, half an hour before lunch, half an hour before dinner and once again before going to bed. This dose is given only for a single day, and then it is left to work. The affective time is judged by the therapist's own experience and by the change in the picture of complaints of the patient."

You see, this dose is given only for a single day, and then it is left to work. ... You have read this whole paragraph, Homeo Doctor?

I understand 'only for a single day' very much different from 'a day'. The second one I would use as synonym for 'daily' or 'each following day'. If my limited knowledge of English language guided for a wrong understanding, then I would be very grateful to be corrected. I'm glad that I do my daily work in my mother tongue.

Dr. Ramakrishnan: "The Split method also is used by Dr. Ramakrishnan in acute cases: For example, during an acute asthmatic attack, acute colics etc, he first prescribes a remedy to be taken every three or five minutes (e.g. Mag. Phos. D6, 3 globules pure every 5 minutes). If the remedy helps, it is discontinued."

You see the difference in potency? And do You notice that the remedy is discontinued if it helps?

Homeo Doctor, the use of high potencies by Dr. Ramakrishnan is a lot different from the use by You in this discussion thread. The way You promote the use of 200c here and the way Dr. Ramakrishnan does cannot be compared.

This means, my question to You has not yet been answered.

sigi

" Dr. Rama has got 100 curability rate in cancer because he also disagreed with Hahnemann and used 200 c potency four times a day according to the demand of the patient condition."

This statement is not true. According to Dr. Ramakrishnan in His seminar in Bern 2003, He has good results with Astrocytome, cheek, tongue, head of the pancreas, rectum, ovaries, cervix, urinary bladder, breast, prostate gland. The prognosis with stomach cancer is not so good. Also no good results with the bowel and leucaemia. From 25-30 seminom-cases, only 2-3 positive courses.

And He stated in 2003: Last year I lost 200 patients. But if You have only ten good cases, then one can build on that.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan. 05 at 01:50

dear homeo doctor,

I want to clearify this, may be you have mis understood or may be its not clearly written by me that YOU HAVE NOT SUGGESTED THE REMEDY NATRUM CARBONICUM WHICH I TOOK BY MYSELF ,you just suggested 200c potency use and not the remedy name.

All i want to ask is i feel some releif towards all my psychological problem of severe depression-anxiety by taking remedy natrum carbonicum choosen by myself in 200c potency 3 doses a day and one dose consists of 3 drops.

I just try try to repeat the dose when there is good relapse of problem so as know by taking 3 doses of natum carbonicum 200c i feel some releif towards problem but not good releif so may i increase more doses of same potency or should i move to 1M, if yes then how should i take 1M in dosage regard.

I hope i clerify that you didn't suggested the remedy natrum carbonicum and there is no question of deceiving

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan. 05 at 09:37

Dear arora,

Thank You for Your words of clarification.

Do I understand You well, that You are sure, that You take a well chosen remedy (see Snoopy's question on who made suggestion)?

My understanding of Your question is, that You have repeatedly taken the Nat-c. (since yesterday?). Especially in a chronic state of disease, immediate relief usually will not be possible. It is not easy to wait for the time Your nature will regulate the problem and to bring about well being.

Many patients want to speed up the healing process by increasing either the number of doses or the potency. This cannot be recommended. After taking a remedy, if there is an effect, we advise to let the remedy work. If the healing process has started, and another dose is taken, it might have negative influence to this process. The process of healing may stop, or the symptoms may change, so that it can be difficult to decide whether this change is due to the frequent repetition of the medicine or due to a remedy not chosen best. The case becomes blurry.

Your case is not known to any of us here, and so You cannot be given exact advice. Your homeopath may be able to, because He knows You.

My message that I full heartedly want to send is, please, try to give Your remedy the time it needs to produce the wanted effect. Once the healing process has started, it is a great success already. Don't try to speed it up - finally You will have the best benefit.

Ramakrishnan (mentioned in posts above) is a specialist in the homeopathic treatment of cancer patients. His use of repeating remedies by His splitting method, although He is grouped among the classical homeopaths, is due to the lack of time in most cases of cancer. He states until today, that the minimum dose is the optimum, but if there is NO TIME, He is trying to optimize His treatment by this kind of application of remedies.

I'd suggest that You should wait with taking the next dose. It may be helpful to write down the changes You experience so that You will not forget them. And try to find a person who can evaluate these changes and the action of the remedy. If the moment of the next dose is chosen well, it may be more helpful to You than to increase the frequence of repetition or the change to 1M right now.

For You, arora, I hope that we all exchange our views in a way that is constructive and respectful, regardless the difference.

Take care,

sigi

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan. 05 at 10:05

Regarding what Sigi said about Dr. Ramakrishnan giving high potencies in repeated doses; first, you'll note that he he gives the doses in water and he says, "stir the water before each dose," consequently, no two doses are exactly alike.  This is important because repetition of like doses can lead to provings and aggravations; so regardless of the potency we use, we should keep in mind the need to "alter the dose" when we plan to repeat the remedy.

Secondly, Dr. Ramakrishnan believes that cancer is like an acute disease because it moves speedily, unlike your average chronic case which takes years to progress.  Therefore, the doctor acts as if he is faced with a severe acute and prescribes accordingly--high potency in repeated doses.  However, there may be some slow moving cancers, like prostate cancer, where a lower potency repeated often might be more similar to the disease.

Anyway, Arora, we don't know your case, we don't know if you have a chronic picture, punctuated by flare-ups or crisis of another picture, which might suggest that two remedies of two separate potencies may be needed in your case, we just don't know.  If you don't have a homeopath, there are many competent homeopaths who take cases online; our own Dr. B can take your case--see the homepage.  Dr. Leela (www.homeopathy2health.com) can take your case and properly manage it.

Good luck!

Snoopy

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 05 at 01:11

Regarding what Sigi said about Dr. Ramakrishnan giving high potencies in repeated doses; first, you'll note that he he gives the doses in water and he says, "stir the water before each dose," consequently, no two doses are exactly alike.  This is important because repetition of like doses can lead to provings and aggravations

Ha ha ha ha ah.....And this proves that he had not given four doses in a day....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 05 at 01:44
http://www.doktor-quak.de/Ramakrishnan_Bern_2003.pdf by  Miklos  Tacacs, page 4 on Split-dose at 'Präventive Arbeit'.
http://www.doktor-quak.de/Rhamakrishna2003.pdf by Josef-Karl Graspeutner, page 16, 'Split-Methode'.
The second article, a 145 page seminar writeup has been the base for my article on the cancer protocols by Dr. Ramakrishnan. The seminar was from 2003. In 2004, when I wrote the article, it has been the newest data on Ramakrishnan's cancer protocols that were available to me. The shaking as described by Snoopy, I only could find to be mentioned at the description of the Plussing-method, that is pretty much different from the Split-method we are talking here. Kindly consider this note.
The seminar held by Ramakrishnan has been translated to German for the participants. I am sorry that I didn't find a writeup in English, which would be more convenient for You. My sources are written in German language.
The two writeups have been written independently by two persons who attended the seminar, both of them stating the application as I mentioned earlier (4 X, FOUR  TIMES).
I did not attend the seminar, so I have to believe to the writeups. Having two independent writeups available, I consider my contribution worth it.
Homeodoctor, if You can present to me that the statements by Dr. Ramakrishnan have been quoted wrong by the authors, gratefully I would add Your corrections to the article. I only try to share what I have found out. Additions and corrections always are welcome.
sigi



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 05 at 02:28
A  note on the use of the split  method given by Dr. Ramakrishnan (reference is the second article  from the above post, page 9):
Single dose - split method - plussing method
As a rule, with 'normal' patients, I give the homeopathically chosen remedy as a single dose, because I still consider myself being a Kent's student. I give to this particular emphasis, becaus I do not want You to think, that I would turn homeopathy upside down. When I study a case, I focus on the totality of the symptoms. I also know about the importance of the mental state of a patient, which frequently is deciding for my choice in remedy selection. Also it is important for me to wait for the remedy terminating its action if it shows the wanted effect.
The exception only is the treatment of cancer, here I have modified the treating method of  classical homeopathy in order to get better results.

Homeo Doctor, however You practice homeopathy. However how often You repeat high potencies in normal cases. Dr. Ramakrishnan was not a good example for Your attack/targetting at me. I choose the word attack, because not real facts count for You and reasonable discussion but to ridicule me in big letters.
A few words about Your attack in the other thread:
Yes, my first answer on aroras question at this thread did not answer Her question. I stated my gratitude for Your correction, explaining that I jumped on the assumption that She/He wants to repeat the 200c remedy daily (what seemed to be true according to later messages). In this context I stated Hahnemann. If You disregard this fact, in order to ridicule me, well, if it makes You happy... .
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